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November 2023

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Anyone tried Purism's Librem 5 phone or Librem 11 tablet?
by Ben Sturmfels 27 Nov '23

27 Nov '23

Hey Folks, Has anyone out there bought any of the Purism devices, especially the phone (Librem 5) or the tablet (Librem 11)? I'm interested to hear your experiences. My old Galaxy S5 with replaceable battery and headphone jack is still going strong but is about to be made obsolete by the 3G shutdown coming in the next few months. My main concern with the Librem 5 is not having the F-Droid ecosystem - it's pretty handy having access to apps like AntennaPod (podcasts), OSMAnd (navigation), Conversations (XMPP chat), K-9 mail and NewPipe (YouTube). I realised of course that I can just keep my Galaxy S5 and continue using it via wifi. Cheers, Ben

3 3

New Libre phone
by teacher＠tutanota.com 17 Nov '23

17 Nov '23

Hi Ben, I've been using a Purism laptop for a few years now. Solid buy, pricy but 100 % worth it. No issues with hinges or else. I've considered their phone and I've found reviews that made it clear it's not a powerful option. Alternatives to be considered ? The Volla phones ? https://volla.online/en/index.html It has multiboot (!) so you can have fun distro hoping between Ubuntu Touch, VollaOS (a modified fork of Lineageos), Mobian or else. I have a Volla phone, the X21. It's an heavy brick, but does the job pretty well. My wife has the 22, great, but a bit sluggish. The X23, I've been told, is good. It's marketed as "rugged" but is not seriously strong (I received report of someone scratching the glass through his jeans !). The customer support is slow and not impressive.Other options with Free OS ? The Pro1 X https://www.fxtec.com/smartphones/pro1x if you have deep pockets. I don't know how better the pinephone got, but I suspect it's still not intended as a daily driver. I you're interested in environmentally friendly phones, with replaceable batteries, Fairphone. The Fairphone 4 is offered with /e/OS, another Lineageos Fork. https://shop.fairphone.com//fairphone-4-e-operating-system Nitrokey also sells refurbished Google Pixel phones with GrapheneOS on it. It's the most secured Lineageos fork at the moment. https://shop.nitrokey.com/shop/product/nitrophone-3a-506?search=nitrophone Pricy. That's my take on this :). Julien Danglard Instructional designer / Professeur de français -- Tutanota respects your privacy and it's for free, try it ! https://tutanota.com 17 nov. 2023, 11:30 de free-software-melb-request(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au: > Send Free-software-melb mailing list submissions to > free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or > body 'help' to > free-software-melb-request(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > You can reach the person managing the list at > free-software-melb-owner(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Free-software-melb digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Anyone tried Purism's Librem 5 phone or Librem 11 tablet? > (Les Kitchen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 00:04:43 +1100 > From: "Les Kitchen" <ljk+fsm(a)ljk.id.au> > Subject: [free-software-melb] Re: Anyone tried Purism's Librem 5 phone > or Librem 11 tablet? > To: "Melbourne Free Software Interest Group" > <free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au> > Message-ID: <933a88bc-e94d-478a-8eed-32d675015b2c(a)app.fastmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 > > Hi Ben (and other Free Software folk)! > > On Wed, Nov 15, 2023, at 21:57, Ben Sturmfels via Free-software-melb wrote: > >> Has anyone out there bought any of the Purism devices, especially the >> phone (Librem 5) or the tablet (Librem 11)? I'm interested to hear your >> experiences. >> > > I've had a Purism Librem-5 for just over a year (after a very > long pre-ordering wait, about three years). I've had a Pine64 > Pinephone for about three years, so I can comment based on > experience with both. And I got a Pinephone Pro about a year > ago. I've also owned a succession of Librem-13 laptops, and a > Pinebook Pro laptop, so I can probably make some general > comments about Pine64 versus Purism, but I'll focus on the > phones. > > I haven't been able to use any of them (yet) as my everyday > phone (that's an old Google Pixel phone, which won't be usable > for much longer). Mainly for need of Android / F-Droid apps. > However, last year I took my Pinephone (henceforth PP) to carry > my travel-sim on my big overseas trip, and on this year's trip I > took along my Librem-5 (henceforth L5). Both worked fine for > phonecalls, SMS, data tethering, web-browsing, etc., and having > a real Linux computer in your pocket. I also usually carry > either my L5 or PP with me when I'm out and about, to have a > real Linux computer with me. > > Another thing I'll say is that what I say here is mainly based > on my own experience. Maybe for some of the problems I've > encountered there are fixes I haven't been able to find or apply > yet. Maybe there are problems that I haven't encountered in my > usage, which other people might encounter. With a lot of this > somewhat "experimental" hardware, some time investment is > required of the user. > > >> My old Galaxy S5 with replaceable battery and headphone jack is still >> going strong but is about to be made obsolete by the 3G shutdown coming >> in the next few months. >> > > Well the good news is that all three phones, the L5, the PP, and > the Pinephone Pro (henceforth PPPro) are good in those respects: > replaceable battery, headphone jack, 4G. I can verify that the L5 > and PP support VoLTE out of the box, and I expect that the PPPro > does too, though I haven't (yet) used it much for phonecalls. > > They all have hardware kill-switches for the radios, camera, > microphone. They all have the cellular modem isolated from the > CPU and RAM, accessed only via USB. All have plastic backs > which you can pry off to get to the innards. All are designed > to be repairable. > > Now for the differences: > > But before that I'll say that you can better understand the > differences between the phones with some idea of the differences > between the companies: Pine64 is basically a hardware company, > which relies on the community to produce the software, apps and > operating systems, and is still mainly aiming at enthusiasts. > Purism is trying to be a complete solution for ordinary > consumers (and largely succeeding), developing apps and their > own PureOS operating system (Debian based). In a way, Purism is > aiming to be the Apple of Free Software (in a good way), in > providing a complete user setup. Neither approach is totally > better than the other; they're just different. And of course, > the phones using free software, there's a lot of > cross-pollination. > > One way in which this shows up is with power consumption. I'm > not an expert on this, but it seems that Pine64 manage the > suspend states of the CPU better. Even though the L5 has a > bigger battery, it's more power hungery. When I first got my > L5, on a fully charged battery it couldn't even sit idle > overnight without draining the battery and shutting down, while > the PP could sit for several days idle on a charge. Since then, > Purism have got suspend-to-RAM working pretty reliably. So the > L5 can now pretty much last a whole day of light use on a > battery charge, or overnight idle. But the PP is still stronger > in this respect. > > I'll compare mostly the PP and the L5, with which I have most > experience. The PPPro has very attractive specs, faster CPU, > 4GB RAM, 128GB on board memory, USB-3, gorilla glass screen. Slightly > thicker body than the PP, but otherwise similar, and compatible > with PP add-ons, like the keyboard case. But last time I > checked, some things, like the camera, weren't yet supported by > software. I expect this will change in time. > > Now to the other differences between the PP and the L5: > > 1. The L5 is much more solidly built, with gorilla-glass screen. > My PP's screen has got scuffed up a bit with use (though not > enough to significantly affect viewing), and has developed a > small (so far inconsequential) crack — but maybe that was > just bad luck of being pressed against something while in its > case. But then my L5's screen is usually a bit discoloured > at the edges — I think from heat from the metal frame. > > 2. Both have 3GB RAM and 32GB onboard flash storage (and µ-SD > card slot). The L5 has a somewhat faster CPU, but not > hugely so. I've mostly noticed it in scrolling webpages, > which on the PP can be a bit sluggish (though this might also > be a GPU thing). In each of my L5 and PP I have a (nominal) > 256GB µ-SD card with encrypted btrfs filesystem. > > 3. The L5's cellular modem is on a separate circuit board (I > think with M2 connector). This means you can have a choice > of modem, for different regions. But that is one of the > contributors to the L5's thicker body and higher power > consumption. There was some talk about the L5 being able to > support 5G in future, but it seems that's not technically > possible, because the underlying circuitry can't (inter alia) > deliver enough power for 5G. The PP's (and PPPro's) modems > are soldered onto the main board — both phones access > the modem via USB. So untrusted firmware on the modem can't > hijack your CPU and RAM, as is possible on most phones, with > integrated modems. > > 4. The L5's battery is bigger and thicker (to support the higher > power requirements), and AFAIK is a bespoke battery. The PP > battery is thinner, and is the same as on one of the older > Samsung phones (I think S7), so there are plenty of > third-party replacements available. (I can give you the part > number if you ask. I got mine from Betterbatt.) Batteries on > both phones are easily replaceable by prying off the plastic > back cover. The L5 battery is a tight fit: you need to pull > on the tape tab to get it out. The PP original battery is a > snug fit, but you can get it out with a fingernail. But the > third-party replacement battery is a tight fit, and I needed > the suction-cup puller from my toolkit to get it out. > > 5. The L5's case is much thicker than the PP's (to accommodate > the modem board and bigger battery), and overall the L5 is > much heavier (in part also from the metal frame). > > 6. The L5's hardware kill-switches are sliders conveniently > located on the side of the case, recessed to avoid accidental > operation. The PP's hardware kill-switches are DIP switches, > to access which you have to pry off the plastic back. Given > that for most people operating the kill-switches won't happen > often, it's not so important that they be easily accessible. > > 7. The L5 takes a nano-SIM. That, and the µ-SD card, go into a > slider tray on the side of the case. One gotcha is that my > SIM-eject tool wasn't long enough to operate the L5's tray. > I ended up scratching the tray a bit trying to get it open > with other tools, until I tried the (extra-long) SIM-eject > tool that came with the L5. The L5 also has a slot for one > of those secure-ID cards inside the battery compartment, > which caused me some confusion at first, because it > superficially looks like an extra µ-SD slot. > > The PP takes a μ-SIM. To access that and the μ-SD, you have > to pry off the back and take out the battery. > > If you want to put in a nano-SIM (which most phones use these > days) then you have to use an adapter. Using most adapters > (like salvaged from your tri-SIM package) is fraught because > the nano-SIM easily slips out of the adapter as you're > inserting it or taking it out, running the risk of damaging > the contact pins. My PP came with an adapter that has a > plastic film across, which better holds the nano-SIM in > place. (Maybe you could achieve the same effect with a > carefully cut and applied piece of sticky tape.) > > If you have a SIM just for your PP, and just break it down to > micro-SIM size, then it's not a problem. But if you're > swapping SIMs from other phones which take nano-SIM, then > this is quite a pain. > > 8. The PP, if you buy the "Convergence" edition, comes with a > bar with a pigtail that plugs into the PP's USB-C port. It > provides a USB-C port (through which you can power everything), > two USB-A ports (only USB-2), an HDMI port, and an ethernet > port (gigabit, I think, but limited to USB-2 speeds). The > idea is that you can plug in a monitor, mouse, and keyboard, > and use your PP as a low-powered but convenient desktop > machine. The PPPro comes with a similar bar, but with USB-3. > You can get such a bar for the L5, which also has an SDcard > and a μ-SDcard reader as well, but you have to purchase it > separately, and I have had some problems with mine, in that > sometimes the cards are not recognized. I think this might > be power-related (see next). > > 9. There's a bit more power-related weirdness with the L5 than > with the PP. It's a known problem that the L5 won't boot (or > even charge) if the battery charge is too low (even when on > external power), and there's an advertised funny dance to > boot up in this situation, to get the machine running again > and the battery charging. Myself, recently I've also found > at times that my L5 won't boot, even when the battery has > plenty of charge. I've found that if I take out the battery > for a few seconds, my L5 will try to reboot when I put the > battery back in, but fail. After that, though, if I connect > external power, it will boot OK from the power-switch. > > I've also noticed recently that my L5 will lose its cellular > Internet connection, and the only way I've found to get it > back it to reboot. Maybe there's a better fix, but I haven't > had time to research. > > Also, the L5 is a bit more fussy about power supply than the > PP. The L5 is happy on good PD, but seems to treat everything > else as ordinary USB and charges very slowly (usually too > slowly to overcome power usage, so it never charges.) > > 10. The PP can boot off the µ-SD card, which is very handy if > you want to try out different operating systems. In > particular, there's a program called JumpDrive, which > exposes the internal eMMC memory as if it were a USB > flash-drive, which you can use to reflash internals. > There's also a variant bootloader, Towboot, which lets you > select where to boot from at startup, by pressing one of > the volume buttons. I don't think there's stuff like that > available for the L5. > > 11. The PPP (and PPPro) have pogo-pins on the back inside the > cover, which allow interfacing with various addons, like > keyboard case with extra battery (not without some > problems), wireless charging, LORAN. > > 12. While it's possible to run various operating systems on the > L5, I've used only Purism's (Debian-based) PureOS, and I > think that's what most people seem to do. The mostly > standard OS for PP is Manjaro, but I'm now mostly using > Mobian (also Debian based) with Phosh. Because PureOS also > uses Phosh on the L5, the user experience is pretty nearly > identical on the two machines, the PP being a bit slower. > Both PureOS and Mobian support disk encryption at > installation time. > > I guess my impression, based on some experience, is that > the L5 is a heavier, fancier, much more expensive phone, with some > glitches. The PP is less solid, a bit slower, but a more reliable > and much cheaper phone. Overall, I'd say the PP is better value. > > Russell Coker has some posts about the L5 on his blog, which are > worth reading: https://etbe.coker.com.au/ > > There's also some extra info at places like: > - https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 > - https://amosbbatto.wordpress.com/2020/08/25/comparing-linux-phones/ > >> My main concern with the Librem 5 is not having the F-Droid ecosystem - >> it's pretty handy having access to apps like AntennaPod (podcasts), >> OSMAnd (navigation), Conversations (XMPP chat), K-9 mail and NewPipe >> (YouTube). I realised of course that I can just keep my Galaxy S5 and >> continue using it via wifi. >> > > One of my next jobs is to try to get Waydoid working. The > Waydroid install script doesn't recognize PureOS, so it's going > to be a matter of figuring out what the script does, and > adapting it for my L5. And I haven't had time even to try to > install Waydroid on Mobian on my PP, but I've heard that people > have done it. With Waydroid it should be possible to run those > really necessary Android or F-droid apps on either PP or L5. > All it takes is time.... > > Oh, about other Purism stuff: I've had mixed experience with my > Librem-13 laptops. There was a minor annoyance that the > keyboard sent wrong keycodes. There was a fix in PureOS, but > not in plain Debian, which I chose to run in preference. That > required some work-arounds for a while, until the fixes got > up-streamed. The main serious problems, though: > My first one died after about a year, and just wouldn't boot any > more. After trying some things suggested by the Purism people > (who were helpful) I sent it back for repair under warranty, and > Purism just replaced it (meaning I lost all my stickers, but on > the positive side I got an upgrade from Librem-13v3 to > Librem-13v4). That second machine ran well until a hinge mount > broke about a year later. That also got replaced under > warranty. (Luckily I'd paid extra at purchase time to get the > extended, three-year warranty.) And only a few months ago > (while I was travelling) the hinge mount on this third machine > also broke. This time the break seems to have affected the > power switch, so I can't power it up. But then it once started > up by itself when put away in its case, getting very hot until I > luckily noticed the muffled noise of the fan running wildly. > Then I had to open up the case and disconnect the battery. I > still have to chase up with Purism about the possibility of > repair, because it's now well and truly out of warranty. Just a > matter of finding the time. At least on the trip I had my L5 as > a fallback Linux machine — I was able to plug in that > "convergence" bar, with my little USB chording keyboard, and use > its SD-card reader still to copy and process photos off my > camera, and do my Emacs Org-Mode stuff. > > Aside from those woes, the Librem-13 was a very nice machine > (now superseded by the Librem-14). But it looks like they have > a real problem with their hinge design. Having had hinge > problems with other laptops, I'm always very careful with the > opening and closing. I think having good hinges is one of the most > important design features for a laptop. > > On the other side: my Pinebook Pro is a lesser machine, but has > worked reliably all along, especially good after the NVMe upgrade. > My only gripe is that the only well supported operating system > is Manjaro, which distro lacks some of the packages I need. > > I'm typing this on my relatively new MNT Reform — but that's a > whole 'nother story. > > Well, I've said much more than I thought I would. I hope this > is useful, even if a long read. > > > — Smiles, Les. > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Free-software-melb mailing list -- free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > To unsubscribe send an email to free-software-melb-leave(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > Free Software Melbourne home page: http://www.freesoftware.asn.au/melb/ > > ------------------------------ > > End of Free-software-melb Digest, Vol 141, Issue 1 > ************************************************** >

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