September 2011 - Free-software-melb - lists.softwarefreedom.com.au

Forum now available via Gmane gateway
by Ben Finney 15 Dec '11

15 Dec '11

Howdy all, This forum is now available via the Gmane gateway <URL:http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.foss.melbourne>. As described at that page, this allows the forum to be accessed via many methods in addition to the mailing list, such as NNTP (which is how I'm now posting this message), a weblog-style interface, and syndication feeds. I have given Ben Sturmfels instructions for how to make the past messages of this forum appear as postings in Gmane; hopefully he can find the time to do that. -- \ “If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the | `\ precipitate.” —Steven Wright | _o__) | Ben Finney

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Microsoft requires Windows 8 logo systems to not boot unsigned OS's
by Chris Samuel 25 Sep '11

25 Sep '11

This looks like something to keep an eye on.. Matthew Garrett (the guy who makes peoples laptops work with Linux and has to deal with EFI & Linux - makes you wonder what awful thing he did in a past life) writes about a worrying requirement for Windows 8 logo certification for hardware vendors.. http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5552.html # Microsoft requires that machines conforming to the # Windows 8 logo program and running a client version # of Windows 8 ship with secure boot enabled. The two # alternatives here are for Windows to be signed with # a Microsoft key and for the public part of that key # to be included with all systems, or alternatively for # each OEM to include their own key and sign the # pre-installed versions of Windows. The second approach # would make it impossible to run boxed copies of Windows # on Windows logo hardware, and also impossible to install # new versions of Windows unless your OEM provided a new # signed copy. The former seems more likely. # # A system that ships with only OEM and Microsoft keys will # not boot a generic copy of Linux. -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC

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late Gen X experimenters with Linux
by Andrew Thornton 24 Sep '11

24 Sep '11

Ubuntu is a great example of a OS ready for the desktop market. If only Stallman would see it as such. I suppose we can continue in spite of him. I don't see how you can go against what people want; if people want to use Skype in a Linux OS then Stallman to me is engaging in anti-marketing by not putting it on a recognized OS list of "free" software". Anyway. What I want to get to is why people use Linux. This was discussed on SFD. I want to concentrate on my own motivations. I left school in the early 90's with absolute computer illiteracy. I couldn't put a disk in the drive. I couldn't turn on a computer. This was in spite of an abundance of computers and being taught about computers at school. It took me a long time to get anywhere with computers. I didn't really understand what a file was until about 2004. Now I experiment with any computer technology that I can find. It might be free software or opensource. It might be paid software. I am dual booted with Win 7 and Fedora 15 mainly to experiment with fedora. I use Windows most of the time and it alone would meet my needs. Sometimes in my experiments the instructions are wrong in documentation or tutorials so I have to "work it out". In such cases I try to avoid going to forums or mailing lists except as a last resort; it's my intent to "solve the puzzle" with my own brains. That I have succeeded in that a number of times with my own unassisted efforts makes me believe that I am "good" with computers. At least by that definition. I have never learnt C++. I don't understand IPV6 and so many other things. I have no idea how to set a laptop display for talks; I have never had a laptop. But for all that I am "good" with computers. And all that with a lack of any training. I have never studied computing at TAFE or university; I wish that I had been in the system 5 years later and I might have done comp sci at uni. But I was in the wrong era in the last days of a pre-internet world when computers were thrown at kids without any help. Web application frameworks. Shopping carts. Databases. GUI programming. Prolog. Python. Clonezilla. Backtrack. VMware. OpenIndiana Linux [fork of Solaris] IPV6 [trying to understand it! Whether I get anywhere with NAT and Teredo tunnels is another matter]. Had I a dollar for everything that I try and get into I would be rich. It all fascinates me. I spend hours with it all. A lot of the time it is random. I might go to Wikipedia and look up say, comparison of web application frameworks. What's that one? Never tried one. So I set it up and play with it. I wish that I could learn it all. But of course nobody can. So I guess that I have narrowed it down to a broad intent of sorts. I am studying a mixture of graphics design [Dip of Design] and some IT certificates in php and python and .NET. The providers are online courses and there are no deadlines. So I can romp down whatever IT rabbit hole I wish. So in the end it's graphics design/web programming that is the overarching broad intent. I am heading for a similar skillset to that guy who does the VTC.com lectures, Geoff Blake. So that's it. I am an experimentalist. I have no bias for it. I will experiment with anything. I have astonishing opportunities as a student.I have access to a free, entirely legal student copy [can't be used for commercial work] of 3D Autodesk Max. Because my college for graphics is recognized by Autodesk. So I am playing with that. Sometimes I have played with blender.

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Re: [free-software-melb] the evil MS endgame?
by elliott-brennan 22 Sep '11

22 Sep '11

Hi Andrew, Apart from not being an idiot, I could well imagine Stallman would consider this to be a serious concern also. His concerns about Ubuntu are valid when you examine his overall aim. Though I can see what he means, I'm less doctrinaire (which is either a failing in me or not) than he is and so am more willing to negotiate away some rights for a little 'soft and fluffy'. One doesn't need to be concerned about only one thing at a time. Regards, Patrick > Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:19:50 +1000 > From: Andrew Thornton<secretelf77(a)gmail.com> > http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_lin… > > > Richard Stallman is an idiot to worry about ubuntu so much that it's not in > the FSF list of "free" software. May be much much more important things to > be concerned about. As the Iranian proverb goes:"a drowning man doesn't > worry about rain".

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the evil MS endgame?
by Andrew Thornton 22 Sep '11

22 Sep '11

http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_lin… Richard Stallman is an idiot to worry about ubuntu so much that it's not in the FSF list of "free" software. May be much much more important things to be concerned about. As the Iranian proverb goes:"a drowning man doesn't worry about rain".

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Re: [free-software-melb] Free-software-melb Digest, Vol 13, Issue 7
by John Thornton 21 Sep '11

21 Sep '11

So, in plain English if I buy a PC under this scheme even if it is blank with no OS from a shop I will only be able to install Windows on it and not any other OS either alone or dual boot? Sounds worse than China's Green Dam internet censorship. Andrew On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 10:00 PM, < free-software-melb-request(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au> wrote: > Send Free-software-melb mailing list submissions to > free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > free-software-melb-request(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > You can reach the person managing the list at > free-software-melb-owner(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Free-software-melb digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Output of SFD workshop: code sharing (Ben Sturmfels) > 2. Re: Output of SFD workshop: code sharing (Patrick Sunter) > 3. Re: Output of SFD workshop: code sharing (Alexander) > 4. Microsoft requires Windows 8 logo systems to not boot > unsigned OS's (Chris Samuel) > 5. Re: Microsoft requires Windows 8 logo systems to not boot > unsigned OS's (George Patterson) > 6. Re: Microsoft requires Windows 8 logo systems to not boot > unsigned OS's (Dennis K) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:49:36 +1000 > From: Ben Sturmfels <ben(a)stumbles.id.au> > To: Alex Fraser <alex(a)phatcore.com> > Cc: Melbourne Free Software Interest Group > <free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au> > Subject: Re: [free-software-melb] Output of SFD workshop: code sharing > Message-ID: <4E7942B0.7060709(a)stumbles.id.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Alex, > > I've typed up the notes from the code sharing workshop at Software > Freedom Day: > > http://wiki.freesoftware.asn.au/contributingAtWork > > (I don't have Minh or Glenn's contact details though.) > > Cheers, > Ben > > On 09/17/2011 06:48 PM, Alex Fraser wrote: > > Hi Lev et al, > > > > Thanks for a great Software Freedom Day! > > > > The discussion in the Code Sharing workshop revolved around how to > > share code in a corporate setting. Occasionally the discussion drifted > > to encouraging the general adoption of FOSS, but we always came back > > to the topic of development. We identified a need for a set of > > arguments in favour of code contributions that could be presented to > > an employer or client, and then discussed what those arguments should > > be. We also identified a need for a generic FOSS contribution clause > > that can be included in client agreements. > > > > == Action Items == > > 1. Rodney B: Search for an existing guide (page listing similar > > arguments), by the 1st of October. > > 2. Ben S, Glenn M: Use our notes to contribute to the guide found in > > 1. or start a new page at wiki.freesoftware.asn.au, by the 1st of > > November. > > 3. Alex F, Minh N: Look in to crowd funding options (e.g. > > Kickstarter) to pay for legal work (which may be carried out by > > Brendan Scott), by the 1st of November. > > > > That's as far as we got, but presumably more actions will stem from > those. > > > > Thanks again, > > Alex > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 14:00:51 +1000 > From: Patrick Sunter <patdevelop(a)gmail.com> > To: Melbourne Free Software Interest Group > <free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au> > Subject: Re: [free-software-melb] Output of SFD workshop: code sharing > Message-ID: > <CALOKYXVuRFiVkyGGuuCrk4O3zOO6bwXxFyRq4pgiJUmfoQMqww(a)mail.gmail.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Ben Sturmfels <ben(a)stumbles.id.au> > wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > > > I've typed up the notes from the code sharing workshop at Software > Freedom > > Day: > > > > http://wiki.freesoftware.asn.au/contributingAtWork > > > > (I don't have Minh or Glenn's contact details though.) > > > > On this subject I recently came across the free culture book Producing > Open Source software, by Karl Fogel (one of the lead devs of the > Subversion RCS): http://producingoss.com/ > > I recommend it in general for FOSS development, he also has some > things to say about contributions from commercial organisations, such > as http://producingoss.com/en/money-vs-love.html . > > Perhaps a 'references' section on that Wiki page would be good for this? > > -- Pat. > > > Cheers, > > Ben > > > > On 09/17/2011 06:48 PM, Alex Fraser wrote: > >> > >> Hi Lev et al, > >> > >> Thanks for a great Software Freedom Day! > >> > >> The discussion in the Code Sharing workshop revolved around how to > >> share code in a corporate setting. Occasionally the discussion drifted > >> to encouraging the general adoption of FOSS, but we always came back > >> to the topic of development. We identified a need for a set of > >> arguments in favour of code contributions that could be presented to > >> an employer or client, and then discussed what those arguments should > >> be. We also identified a need for a generic FOSS contribution clause > >> that can be included in client agreements. > >> > >> == Action Items == > >> ?1. Rodney B: Search for an existing guide (page listing similar > >> arguments), by the 1st of October. > >> ?2. Ben S, Glenn M: Use our notes to contribute to the guide found in > >> 1. or start a new page at wiki.freesoftware.asn.au, by the 1st of > >> November. > >> ?3. Alex F, Minh N: Look in to crowd funding options (e.g. > >> Kickstarter) to pay for legal work (which may be carried out by > >> Brendan Scott), by the 1st of November. > >> > >> That's as far as we got, but presumably more actions will stem from > those. > >> > >> Thanks again, > >> Alex > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Free-software-melb mailing list > > Free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 14:41:54 +1000 > From: Alexander <alex(a)clockworkpc.com.au> > To: Melbourne Free Software Interest Group > <free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au> > Subject: Re: [free-software-melb] Output of SFD workshop: code sharing > Message-ID: > <CAL1-YVPvitYsoRhfjk3wVGVp4+WHtS7xe74QdyzFm9xvMkctQg(a)mail.gmail.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Ben, > > Thanks. > On Sep 21, 2011 11:50 AM, "Ben Sturmfels" <ben(a)stumbles.id.au> wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > > > I've typed up the notes from the code sharing workshop at Software > > Freedom Day: > > > > http://wiki.freesoftware.asn.au/contributingAtWork > > > > (I don't have Minh or Glenn's contact details though.) > > > > Cheers, > > Ben > > > > On 09/17/2011 06:48 PM, Alex Fraser wrote: > >> Hi Lev et al, > >> > >> Thanks for a great Software Freedom Day! > >> > >> The discussion in the Code Sharing workshop revolved around how to > >> share code in a corporate setting. Occasionally the discussion drifted > >> to encouraging the general adoption of FOSS, but we always came back > >> to the topic of development. We identified a need for a set of > >> arguments in favour of code contributions that could be presented to > >> an employer or client, and then discussed what those arguments should > >> be. We also identified a need for a generic FOSS contribution clause > >> that can be included in client agreements. > >> > >> == Action Items == > >> 1. Rodney B: Search for an existing guide (page listing similar > >> arguments), by the 1st of October. > >> 2. Ben S, Glenn M: Use our notes to contribute to the guide found in > >> 1. or start a new page at wiki.freesoftware.asn.au, by the 1st of > >> November. > >> 3. Alex F, Minh N: Look in to crowd funding options (e.g. > >> Kickstarter) to pay for legal work (which may be carried out by > >> Brendan Scott), by the 1st of November. > >> > >> That's as far as we got, but presumably more actions will stem from > those. > >> > >> Thanks again, > >> Alex > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Free-software-melb mailing list > > Free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb >

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Re: [free-software-melb] Output of SFD workshop: code sharing
by Ben Sturmfels 21 Sep '11

21 Sep '11

Hi Alex, I've typed up the notes from the code sharing workshop at Software Freedom Day: http://wiki.freesoftware.asn.au/contributingAtWork (I don't have Minh or Glenn's contact details though.) Cheers, Ben On 09/17/2011 06:48 PM, Alex Fraser wrote: > Hi Lev et al, > > Thanks for a great Software Freedom Day! > > The discussion in the Code Sharing workshop revolved around how to > share code in a corporate setting. Occasionally the discussion drifted > to encouraging the general adoption of FOSS, but we always came back > to the topic of development. We identified a need for a set of > arguments in favour of code contributions that could be presented to > an employer or client, and then discussed what those arguments should > be. We also identified a need for a generic FOSS contribution clause > that can be included in client agreements. > > == Action Items == > 1. Rodney B: Search for an existing guide (page listing similar > arguments), by the 1st of October. > 2. Ben S, Glenn M: Use our notes to contribute to the guide found in > 1. or start a new page at wiki.freesoftware.asn.au, by the 1st of > November. > 3. Alex F, Minh N: Look in to crowd funding options (e.g. > Kickstarter) to pay for legal work (which may be carried out by > Brendan Scott), by the 1st of November. > > That's as far as we got, but presumably more actions will stem from those. > > Thanks again, > Alex

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Re: [free-software-melb] Free-software-melb Digest, Vol 13, Issue 5
by John Thornton 16 Sep '11

16 Sep '11

Is there any chance of me being able to give a talk.workshop/demo?? Linux distro survey. I give a survey of about 10 linux distros and say what each is good for. Then I hand out free CDs of some. I might not have a clue what GIT is. But I have spent a lot of time playing with linux distributions: puppy, backtrack, artistx, debian, ubuntu, ultimate, linuxgamers, fedora, knoppix...to name a few. If I can't give a talk/workshop of this type then can there be a talk "what is wrong with free software as a community?" and I will answer "the same clique of people with computer science degrees do the same thing all the time and people like me don't get a look in". Just because I do not have a degree in computer science does not mean that I don't know about linux and computers. John On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:00 PM, < free-software-melb-request(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au> wrote: > Send Free-software-melb mailing list submissions to > free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > free-software-melb-request(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > You can reach the person managing the list at > free-software-melb-owner(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Free-software-melb digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Fwd: Software Freedom Day: Free as in lunch with open sauce, > Saturday 17 Sept (Ben Sturmfels) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:21:44 +1000 > From: Ben Sturmfels <ben(a)stumbles.id.au> > To: Melbourne Free Software Interest Group > <free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au> > Subject: [free-software-melb] Fwd: Software Freedom Day: Free as in > lunch with open sauce, Saturday 17 Sept > Message-ID: <4E728888.3090705(a)stumbles.id.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Sorry for the late notice, but here's the info on Software Freedom Day > tomorrow: > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [luv-announce] Software Freedom Day: Free as in lunch with > open sauce > Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:10:38 +1000 > From: lev(a)levlafayette.com > To: luv-announce(a)lists.luv.asn.au > > Software Freedom Day, Saturday September 17. 2011 > > The Hub, 80 Harbour Esplanade, Docklands. > > 12 noon: Free as in lunch with open sauce > > Come join us for a BBQ (meat and vegetarian sausages, onion, sauce and > bread provided - byo drinks and salad) to celebrate Software Freedom Day. > > 1.30 Keynote - Ben Sturmfels, Why Free Software Matters > > 2.30 Workshops - Planning for Freedom in the Coming Year > a. Tony Forster, International Development with Free Software. > b. Alex Garber, Introducing Newcomers to Free Software > c. Alex Fraser, Code Sharing: A Programmer's Perspective > d. Daniel Jitnah, Free Software and Accessibility > e. Kathy Reid, Building Free and Open Source Communities > f. Lev Lafayette, Teaching Free and Open Source Computing > > > Drupal Melbourne will be running a stall and opportunity to discuss using > that free and open source content-management framework. Plus we'll have a > range of Linux distributions and various free software available to > interested parties. > > > _______________________________________________ > luv-announce mailing list > luv-announce(a)lists.luv.asn.au > http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-announce > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Free-software-melb mailing list > Free-software-melb(a)lists.softwarefreedom.com.au > http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb > > > End of Free-software-melb Digest, Vol 13, Issue 5 > ************************************************* >

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Fwd: Software Freedom Day: Free as in lunch with open sauce, Saturday 17 Sept
by Ben Sturmfels 15 Sep '11

15 Sep '11

Sorry for the late notice, but here's the info on Software Freedom Day tomorrow: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [luv-announce] Software Freedom Day: Free as in lunch with open sauce Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:10:38 +1000 From: lev(a)levlafayette.com To: luv-announce(a)lists.luv.asn.au Software Freedom Day, Saturday September 17. 2011 The Hub, 80 Harbour Esplanade, Docklands. 12 noon: Free as in lunch with open sauce Come join us for a BBQ (meat and vegetarian sausages, onion, sauce and bread provided - byo drinks and salad) to celebrate Software Freedom Day. 1.30 Keynote - Ben Sturmfels, Why Free Software Matters 2.30 Workshops - Planning for Freedom in the Coming Year a. Tony Forster, International Development with Free Software. b. Alex Garber, Introducing Newcomers to Free Software c. Alex Fraser, Code Sharing: A Programmer's Perspective d. Daniel Jitnah, Free Software and Accessibility e. Kathy Reid, Building Free and Open Source Communities f. Lev Lafayette, Teaching Free and Open Source Computing Drupal Melbourne will be running a stall and opportunity to discuss using that free and open source content-management framework. Plus we'll have a range of Linux distributions and various free software available to interested parties. _______________________________________________ luv-announce mailing list luv-announce(a)lists.luv.asn.au http://lists.luv.asn.au/listinfo/luv-announce

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Free software discussion group this Thursday 15 September 6pm
by Ben Sturmfels 14 Sep '11

14 Sep '11

Hi Folks, We had a great turnout to last month's Free Software Discussion Group! I'm looking forward to seeing you again next Thursday. Please note the time change to 6pm. Melbourne Free Software Discussion Group Thursday 15 August, 6pm VPAC Head Office Training Room, Level 1 Building 91 110 Victoria Street Carlton South Map: http://www.vpac.org/about/contact Please arrive 10 mins early. Agenda ------ 1. Scope of this group 2. My favourite free software games (Ben Sturmfels) 3. A first free software patch (Alex Garber) 4. Software Freedom Day 17 September If anyone would like to do a short presentation, please let me know! :) Regards, Ben

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