Buying or building a computer in Melbourne
Howdy all, I want to get some machines for the home network, and I want them to be fully supported by only-free software. I would be happy to pay some business in Melbourne to build it from parts and test it, and ideally be available for warranty support. The big trouble is finding people who can meet the free-software requirements. Saying “free software only” doesn't ring any bells with vendors, for the familiar reasons that nobody thinks about software freedom. Saying “only hardware supported by Linux without binary blobs” just gets boiled down in their head to “Linux”, and reliably leads to disappointment when they recommend hardware that doesn't meet what I described. There are some resources to help with this. But pointing a vendor at <URL:http://www.h-node.com/> and asking them to choose only hardware that gets an okay in that database is not much of an option; my money is likely not worth it to the shop to spend their time on that site. There are also efforts to put together computers and sell them <URL:http://open-pc.com/>; but they're patchy and poorly-available and the store interfaces are average-to-terrible. Needless to say none of them are in Melbourne, so delivery costs are a huge factor. Worst of all, those well-researched complete machines are almost never specified in detail, so I can't just say to a Melbourne shop “build me one of these, test it with this USB stick, sell it to me, and give me warranty support”. The information just isn't there for me to take to the shop. Where can I get satisfaction here? I need some or all of these functions: * a machine to act as ADSL + wireless router and DNS + DHCP + HTTP proxy * a machine to act as grunty software development workstation * a machine to act as thin desktop client * a machine to act as home theatre for video & audio It's not 2000 any more; even Debian now has an entirely free-software kernel. Now all I need is to know exactly what good-quality parts to buy to have the above functions. Surely I don't have to individually compile all these specifications myself? -- \ “Human reason is snatching everything to itself, leaving | `\ nothing for faith.” —Bernard of Clairvaux, 1090–1153 CE | _o__) | Ben Finney
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Ben Finney <ben+freesoftware@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
Howdy all,
Where can I get satisfaction here? I need some or all of these functions:
* a machine to act as ADSL + wireless router and DNS + DHCP + HTTP proxy * a machine to act as grunty software development workstation * a machine to act as thin desktop client * a machine to act as home theatre for video & audio
It's not 2000 any more; even Debian now has an entirely free-software kernel. Now all I need is to know exactly what good-quality parts to buy to have the above functions. Surely I don't have to individually compile all these specifications myself?
Unfortunately, based on my experience, you will have to compile the specs. Fortunately, its not 2000 any more: most of the components are supported by kernel drivers - the "horror driver stories" mostly pertains to "medieval ages" nowadays (even the laptops support a linux installation out of the box). When you decide to take the pain of spec-ing the computer(s) yourself, I suggest you give www.msy.com.au a try. In the last 7 years, I spec-ed the 5 computers I bought from them, they built them, performed a 24h burn-test and offered 1 year warranty, all at a very reasonable price. All the 5 supported a Linux without a problem. Adrian PS all the machines I had and have were in the "grunty software development workstation" - not gaming, not 3D rendering, no multimedia/home-theater (except some MP3 thrown somewhere, to listen to while coding).
Adrian Colomitchi <acolomitchi@gmail.com> writes:
Unfortunately, based on my experience, you will have to compile the specs.
Thank you for responding with encouragement nevertheless:
Fortunately, its not 2000 any more: most of the components are supported by kernel drivers - the "horror driver stories" mostly pertains to "medieval ages" nowadays (even the laptops support a linux installation out of the box).
Yes, but that's the easy claim to make these days. The pertinent question is: Do they support Linux *without binary blobs*, such as found in Trisquel or gNewSense or Debian with only free software, out of the box? That's the question I know has been answered thousands of times by others for specified hardware configurations, and am hoping that knowledge doesn't need to be discovered yet again in my case.
I suggest you give www.msy.com.au a try.
Thanks, I will if I can actually get their attention; when I've bought from them in the past they've been insanely busy :-) -- \ “Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “I think so, | `\ Brain, but if the plural of mouse is mice, wouldn't the plural | _o__) of spouse be spice?” —_Pinky and The Brain_ | Ben Finney
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 10:36 PM, Ben Finney <ben+freesoftware@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
Adrian Colomitchi <acolomitchi@gmail.com> writes:
Unfortunately, based on my experience, you will have to compile the specs.
Thank you for responding with encouragement nevertheless:
Fortunately, its not 2000 any more: most of the components are supported by kernel drivers - the "horror driver stories" mostly pertains to "medieval ages" nowadays (even the laptops support a linux installation out of the box).
Yes, but that's the easy claim to make these days.
The pertinent question is: Do they support Linux *without binary blobs*, such as found in Trisquel or gNewSense or Debian with only free software, out of the box? Starting with an Intel MB with integrated graphics may help: http://intellinuxgraphics.org/
Haven't done all the research, but this one looks to have good chances http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/db-DZ68DB/DZ68DB-overview... Also, with some older (but not deprecated) nVidia, you may have some luck with the nouveau drivers http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/MesaDrivers You still afraid of network cards?
That's the question I know has been answered thousands of times by others for specified hardware configurations, and am hoping that knowledge doesn't need to be discovered yet again in my case.
I suggest you give www.msy.com.au a try.
Thanks, I will if I can actually get their attention; when I've bought from them in the past they've been insanely busy :-)
Hmmm... they are selling in an over-the-counter mode and no delivery and at reasonable prices, I think I understand why. Also, I guess it pretty much depends on what shop and day of the week you choose (Brooklyn is convenient for me and isn't *that* busy). Adrian
On 13/10/11 15:53, Ben Finney wrote:
I want to get some machines for the home network, and I want them to be fully supported by only-free software.
I would be happy to pay some business in Melbourne to build it from parts and test it, and ideally be available for warranty support.
For a while I've been wanting also a machine that supports free BIOS software like Coreboot or PMON. I've considered the following all-in-one motherboard from VIA: http://www.pioneercomputers.com.au/products/info.asp?c1=112&c2=115&id=2189 Which is listed as supported by Coreboot: http://www.coreboot.org/Supported_Motherboards#Mini-ITX_.2F_Micro-ITX_.2F_Na... Or alternatively, I've considered the Lemote Yeelong's (fully-free laptop's) sister, Fuloong: http://www.lemote.com/en/products/mini-computer/2010/0310/111.html This doesn't help with the support side of things, though, which I realise is the more important part of the question. Ben
participants (3)
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Adrian Colomitchi -
Ben Finney -
Ben Sturmfels