Gnews notes & recent discussion topics
Hey guys. I'd like to express my enthusiasm for getting a hold of the Gnews notes. I just joined this list assuming this is where they will be posted. But in case not, where will they be? Also, I took the liberty of calling the department of education in Victoria to get a feel for what it would take to get Free Software in schools. They directed me to http://www.education.vic.gov.au/school/principals/spag/infrastructure/Pages/... On the left hand side of that page you can see links to other related areas. But they did make it clear to me that these sorts of things are handled by the actual school. That is to say what the school buys for their students and staff is up to the school, no the department. The department provides guidance but not final say (though you can see the bias fairly clearly). So it could be worth talking to a few principals to understand how they think. From there a trial presentation/demonstration can be put together, get a room full of them and just get some feedback so that a solid project could begin with some focussed direction. And lastly on the topic of workshops for getting started contributing to free software projects. Yes please. Give me one job to do to that will get that ball rolling. Coz I wants it. There are things I would like to contribute to but don't know where to begin (or more truthfully feel like I have nothing to offer). Cheers. Scott.
Hey Scott, It was great to meet you yesterday and I am having similar feelings about wanting to actively work on something worthwhile like this. You certainly know how to dig up the right info quickly and I like your suggestions/approach regarding the schools. I wouldn't have even known who to call! I got onto #openhatch today and managed to chat to a few of the good peeps there, someone mentioned this: http://www.one-education.org have you folks seen this? Seems interesting - they provide android compatible hardware and a turn-key technology education solution for Aussie schools. Not sure how easily it can be extended or if it's even free software, but I was unaware of anyone even attempting something like that before. On another note, I delved into the openhatch.org website and found some useful info on creating an affiliated event: https://openhatch.org/wiki/Events/Affiliated Theres also lots of instructions on how to conduct an openhatch event here: https://openhatch.org/wiki/Open_Source_Comes_to_Campus Damien On 20/02/15 13:12, Scott Junner wrote:
Hey guys.
I'd like to express my enthusiasm for getting a hold of the Gnews notes. I just joined this list assuming this is where they will be posted. But in case not, where will they be?
Also, I took the liberty of calling the department of education in Victoria to get a feel for what it would take to get Free Software in schools. They directed me to http://www.education.vic.gov.au/school/principals/spag/infrastructure/Pages/...
On the left hand side of that page you can see links to other related areas. But they did make it clear to me that these sorts of things are handled by the actual school. That is to say what the school buys for their students and staff is up to the school, no the department. The department provides guidance but not final say (though you can see the bias fairly clearly).
So it could be worth talking to a few principals to understand how they think. From there a trial presentation/demonstration can be put together, get a room full of them and just get some feedback so that a solid project could begin with some focussed direction.
And lastly on the topic of workshops for getting started contributing to free software projects. Yes please. Give me one job to do to that will get that ball rolling. Coz I wants it. There are things I would like to contribute to but don't know where to begin (or more truthfully feel like I have nothing to offer).
Cheers. Scott. _______________________________________________ Free-software-melb mailing list Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/free-software-m...
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On 20/02/15 13:12, Scott Junner wrote:
On the left hand side of that page you can see links to other related areas. But they did make it clear to me that these sorts of things are handled by the actual school.
The department has an install which includes a software bundle called 'eduSTAR'. Many schools use this because of the favorable costs. The Mac version is really just Apple proprietary applications for photos and video, with fairly limited coverage. The Windows version has a wide range of proprietary applications including most of the Microsoft Office applications, but also has free/libre software such as Audacity, FreeMind, GIMPshop, HandBrake, Inkscape, Pencil, Scratch, Stellarium, Tux Maths, and VirtualDub. My perception is that the bundle prioritizes Microsoft applications over any free/libre alternatives wherever the Microsoft program is half reasonable; I don't know if that bias is explicitly driven by the licensing deals or is just a lack of awareness about the issues with allowing companies (with commercial agendas) to frame educational settings. Glenn -- sks-keyservers.net 0x6d656d65
Damien said:
I got onto #openhatch today and managed to chat to a few of the good peeps there, someone mentioned this: http://www.one-education.org have you folks seen this? Seems interesting - they provide android compatible hardware and a turn-key technology education solution for Aussie schools. Not sure how easily it can be extended or if it's even free software, but I was unaware of anyone even attempting something like that before.
On the one-education website they say "All children are learners and teachers, and this spirit of collaboration is amplified by free and open tools that are limited only by imagination". So that appears to be a good indication. Damien also said:
On another note, I delved into the openhatch.org website and found some useful info on creating an affiliated event:
Hmmmn. I sense a cunning and devious plan beginning to brew. Glen said:
The department has an install which includes a software bundle called 'eduSTAR'. Many schools use this because of the favorable costs. etc etc.
I'm making assumptions here. But if I understand this correctly eduSTAR is a couple of .iso files that schools can access and use to load onto computers they purchase. Would that be right? The mac version simply being a bundle of applications rather than including the OS. And I assume they would pay license fees accordingly. I would hazard a guess that the windows bias comes from a lack of confidence or knowledge regarding free options. And I'd lay a wager on the presence of mac software being due to zealots within the department and schools demanding they have the option available. Which if true paints a positive picture for promoting a solid proven free/open platform and tool set. My point being that creating zealots just needs talking to and converting the right people. I refer back to my previous statement about a brewing cunning deviousness. Scott. On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Glenn McIntosh <neonsignal@meme.net.au> wrote:
On 20/02/15 13:12, Scott Junner wrote:
On the left hand side of that page you can see links to other related areas. But they did make it clear to me that these sorts of things are handled by the actual school.
The department has an install which includes a software bundle called 'eduSTAR'. Many schools use this because of the favorable costs.
The Mac version is really just Apple proprietary applications for photos and video, with fairly limited coverage.
The Windows version has a wide range of proprietary applications including most of the Microsoft Office applications, but also has free/libre software such as Audacity, FreeMind, GIMPshop, HandBrake, Inkscape, Pencil, Scratch, Stellarium, Tux Maths, and VirtualDub.
My perception is that the bundle prioritizes Microsoft applications over any free/libre alternatives wherever the Microsoft program is half reasonable; I don't know if that bias is explicitly driven by the licensing deals or is just a lack of awareness about the issues with allowing companies (with commercial agendas) to frame educational settings.
Glenn -- sks-keyservers.net 0x6d656d65
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On 21/02/15 00:48, Scott Junner wrote:
I'm making assumptions here. But if I understand this correctly eduSTAR is a couple of .iso files that schools can access and use to load onto computers they purchase. Would that be right? The mac version simply being a bundle of applications rather than including the OS. And I assume they would pay license fees accordingly.
The schools can purchase their own equipment and install the image themselves, but the department have also negotiated a "Preferred Leasing Facility". Smaller schools like my youngest child's primary school don't have budget for full-time IT staff, so they tend to go the leasing route to reduce support costs. The computers are preimaged. Larger schools like my older children's secondary school do their own imaging. The department has negotiated some sort of bulk licensing fee. This licence is limited in to currently enrolled students (and presumably staff). However, I don't think the licence cost is a significant factor in decision making, because it is dwarfed by maintenance/support costs. Nor should licencing cost be the issue; there is nothing particularly bad about paying for software, assuming support is provided. Though it is a something of a predatory tactic to offer children low licence fees and then charge them a lot more when they leave school! It is the kind of behaviour to be expected from a corporation. What is wrong is the department bias towards proprietary software, in domains where there are great alternatives which have no restriction on using/studying/changing/sharing the software. An interesting point is the inclusion of gimpshop instead of gimp. It becomes a "poor person's photoshop", instead of being a genuine alternative. Now that Adobe have added applications to the eduSTAR package, I would think there is a good chance gimpshop will eventually be dropped (it has already been crippled). Glenn -- sks-keyservers.net 0x6d656d65
On 20/02/15 13:12, Scott Junner wrote:
And lastly on the topic of workshops for getting started contributing to free software projects. Yes please. Give me one job to do to that will get that ball rolling. Coz I wants it. There are things I would like to contribute to but don't know where to begin (or more truthfully feel like I have nothing to offer).
I'm really glad that you're keen Scott. This is something I've always wanted to do too. The two things we need first are a venue and a date. Regarding a venue: Somewhere with plenty of tables, power, good light and internet access. A university or school would be ideal and would help us bring in students. I'm also hopefully meeting up with the Electron Workshop folks next week, so that might be a possibility too. I'll see if I can get any interest from Melbourne Uni too. If you have any contacts, let us know. Regarding a date: Would probably need to be a weekend and perhaps not in school/university holidays so we can get students along easily. Perhaps May to give us time to plan and promote? Regards, Ben
On 06/03/15 11:23, Ben Sturmfels wrote:
I'm really glad that you're keen Scott. This is something I've always wanted to do too. The two things we need first are a venue and a date.
Regarding a venue: Somewhere with plenty of tables, power, good light and internet access. A university or school would be ideal and would help us bring in students. I'm also hopefully meeting up with the Electron Workshop folks next week, so that might be a possibility too. I'll see if I can get any interest from Melbourne Uni too. If you have any contacts, let us know.
Might also be worth considering the Footscray Maker Lab: http://footscraymakerlab.com/ Cheers, Andrew
Regarding a venue: Somewhere with plenty of tables, power, good light and internet access. A university or school would be ideal and would help us bring in students. I'm also hopefully meeting up with the Electron Workshop folks next week, so that might be a possibility too. I'll see if I can get any interest from Melbourne Uni too. If you have any contacts, let us know.
I've put out one feeler but am waiting for a response. Nice room in the city with WiFi and a bunch of tables to sit round. Lends itself to people congregating in small groups to work on different projects. Failing that, what about the room in Building 91 at RMIT? Is that not appropriate? I suppose it needs someone from the university to be present. Is that a limiting factor? I'm all for a weekend in may. And it appears to be mid Semester. So how about May 16 or May 23? Both are Saturdays. Scott
Have also left a message for someone to get back to me regarding the Footscray Maker Lab. While I'm thinking about all this, do we want to put some sort of ceiling on attendee numbers to help us find an appropriate venue? Scott On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Scott Junner <scott.junner@gmail.com> wrote:
Regarding a venue: Somewhere with plenty of tables, power, good light and internet access. A university or school would be ideal and would help us bring in students. I'm also hopefully meeting up with the Electron Workshop folks next week, so that might be a possibility too. I'll see if I can get any interest from Melbourne Uni too. If you have any contacts, let us know.
I've put out one feeler but am waiting for a response. Nice room in the city with WiFi and a bunch of tables to sit round. Lends itself to people congregating in small groups to work on different projects.
Failing that, what about the room in Building 91 at RMIT? Is that not appropriate? I suppose it needs someone from the university to be present. Is that a limiting factor?
I'm all for a weekend in may. And it appears to be mid Semester. So how about May 16 or May 23? Both are Saturdays.
Scott
Scott Junner <scott.junner@gmail.com> writes:
Failing that, what about the room in Building 91 at RMIT? Is that not appropriate?
We are rapidly losing legitimate access to that room. We want to find a new place to hold meetings. In the past several members had continual emplyer-related access to RMIT building 91's training room. But changes in office locations have now resulted in almost none of our members with a justification to have security access there. We have not (yet) been told that our access will be revoked. But it's clear that we are relying on the generosity of our hosts and perhaps their leniency in Enforcing overlooking their own security policies. That's not a situation we can in good conscience rely on. What locations can members suggest for our general meetings? Requirements, in my opinion: * Central (CBD if possible), for ensuring most people have the ability to get there. * Inexpensive, preferably no fee, for our group to use. * Available when some of our committee can't attend — no reliance on any one person to show up. * Available on a weeknight once per month, and for irregular events at other times. Good to have: * Power cables for computers. * Internet access via 802.11 wi-fi for our members, including people who haven't declared they will attend. * Overhead projector with cables to connect for presentations. * Management friendly to software freedom: this would be a bonus because they might have a representitive join us, and we would have some assurance they will like the meetings to continue. -- \ “Members of the general public commonly find copyright rules | `\ implausible, and simply disbelieve them.” —Jessica Litman, | _o__) _Digital Copyright_ | Ben Finney
It appears that yorkbutterfactory.com is available on the 23rd May But not the Saturday before. Can we nail down some details so I can send him information? Probably best to create the Meetup Page for the event before hand. Guy I spoke to seemed to want that. I'm happy to make the Meetup page happen if I have the info needed. I'm sure it'll take little more than an hour to write up something snazzy. Scott On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Ben Finney <ben+freesoftware@benfinney.id.au
wrote:
Scott Junner <scott.junner@gmail.com> writes:
Failing that, what about the room in Building 91 at RMIT? Is that not appropriate?
We are rapidly losing legitimate access to that room. We want to find a new place to hold meetings.
In the past several members had continual emplyer-related access to RMIT building 91's training room. But changes in office locations have now resulted in almost none of our members with a justification to have security access there.
We have not (yet) been told that our access will be revoked. But it's clear that we are relying on the generosity of our hosts and perhaps their leniency in Enforcing overlooking their own security policies. That's not a situation we can in good conscience rely on.
What locations can members suggest for our general meetings?
Requirements, in my opinion:
* Central (CBD if possible), for ensuring most people have the ability to get there.
* Inexpensive, preferably no fee, for our group to use.
* Available when some of our committee can't attend — no reliance on any one person to show up.
* Available on a weeknight once per month, and for irregular events at other times.
Good to have:
* Power cables for computers.
* Internet access via 802.11 wi-fi for our members, including people who haven't declared they will attend.
* Overhead projector with cables to connect for presentations.
* Management friendly to software freedom: this would be a bonus because they might have a representitive join us, and we would have some assurance they will like the meetings to continue.
-- \ “Members of the general public commonly find copyright rules | `\ implausible, and simply disbelieve them.” —Jessica Litman, | _o__) _Digital Copyright_ | Ben Finney
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On 10/03/15 14:16, Scott Junner wrote:
It appears that yorkbutterfactory.com is available on the 23rd May But not the Saturday before.
Can we nail down some details so I can send him information? Probably best to create the Meetup Page for the event before hand. Guy I spoke to seemed to want that. I'm happy to make the Meetup page happen if I have the info needed. I'm sure it'll take little more than an hour to write up something snazzy.
That date sounds as good as any. It's also close to our normal Thursday meetup that we probably wouldn't run that month - so that's good. I've added an upcoming event marked "tentative". http://freesoftware.org.au/ Electron Workshop are very happy to have us for monthly Thursday meetups - just waiting on confirmation that 3rd Thursday is ok. They may be an option for a weekend event too pending availability. Had some initial interest from Melbourne Uni computer science and software engineering dept for a venue. I'm kinda hoping that if they get involved it might be a good way to get in touch with students and they might be interested in sponsoring some refreshments. Will have to see. Anyway, sounds like we may be spoilt for choice, which is awesome. Thanks Scott! :) Regards, Ben
participants (6)
-
Andrew Pam -
Ben Finney -
Ben Sturmfels -
Damien Zammit -
Glenn McIntosh -
Scott Junner