http://politicalirony.com/2009/12/10/what-if-2/ This comic about global warming has a person presenting at a 'Climate Summit' conference with a list of all the benefits to the earth and society of moving to green energy. A person in the audience stands up and says, "What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" Ben Finney pointed out that the way hackers treat each other is often shitty. I feel like we almost need a geek version of this comic. "What if it's not sexism [keeping women out] and we create a more welcoming community for nothing?" Dennis made a very interesting point: "We base the standard on male behaviour, because that's what progressivism has defined as the goal. But to do this, is to assume that the men know better. It is to assume that if women behave differently, then it is the woman's behaviour we need to alter." (I don't know what you exactly mean by progressivism, but with s/progressivism/patriarchy I agree. :)) Basically, traits associated with men tend to be lauded, and traits associated with women tend to be trivialised and dismissed. So, why is that? Masculine traits are inherently or objectively better in some way, more meaningful, useful? Or is it that society values men and the masculine above women and the feminine? The judgement of the traits reflect the worth (to society) of the people who practice them, not vice versa. i.e. women's activities are silly because women practice them, not: women are silly because their activities are silly. Feminism acknowledges that this bind is bad for both men and women. The restrictive sterotypes harm both men and women. Men face a huge amount of social pressure not to embrace things associated with women. I agree that the focus on 50/50 or any other particular ratio is not super helpful. We will know when it is enough when women in X groups fall apart due to lack of interest. This thread started because Bianca posted the HOWTO as a gentle reminder of some good things to keep in mind. So also keep in mind that when you are thinking or asking "where's the evidence that women are kept out/turned away from FLOSS by the behaviour of men?", there are women in your group who are speaking to you (collectively). Please don't interpret this as a suggestion to quiz her about specifics of precisely what she had in mind. Being expected to be a bearer of all wisdom on the problem of women in free software is, well, yet another reminder that there are few others to ask! Many points in the HOWTO point this out. One final point. It makes sense to think that everyone experiences our community in roughly the same way as we ourselves do, as broadly welcoming and friendly. It can be confronting when we are told otherwise. How could we not have noticed? I think a useful concept here is that of privilege, which describes a set of advantages that a majority group receives, that they are usually unaware of. http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Privilege As one blogger puts it, "Privilege is driving on a smooth road and not even knowing it." http://www.amptoons.com/blog/2005/12/02/privilege-is-driving-a-smooth-road-a... "Imagine two roads: one smooth, well-paved, well-maintained, the other lumpy and full of cracks and pits. Most people will drive over the smooth road without even noticing it – but that doesn’t mean that the smooth road hasn’t facilitated their driving. Nor does it mean that the person driving on the smooth road has more merit, as a driver, than someone stuck on pothole avenue." In many different ways that society divides people, it is hard or near impossible to switch from one road to the other. Acknowledging that is not to blame everyone on the smooth road for the potholes. Feeling guilty about privilege isn't helpful, but there are things that people with privilege can do to share it and support those without it. This post has some great advice: "'Check my what?' On privilege and what we can do about it" http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-03-08_146 like "Call Others of Your Group on their Crap", which relates to something Bianca said earlier. "Privilege is perpetuated in part by the silence of people when one of their own group does something questionable." I'm at LCA this week and if you would like to discuss this in person please feel free to approach me and say hi. Ben Sturmfels knows who I am so ask him if you're not sure :) regards, Brianna