So, in plain English if I buy a PC under this scheme even if it is blank with no OS from a shop I will only be able to install Windows on it and not any other OS either alone or dual boot?

Sounds worse than China's Green Dam internet censorship.

Andrew

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Output of SFD workshop: code sharing (Ben Sturmfels)
  2. Re: Output of SFD workshop: code sharing (Patrick Sunter)
  3. Re: Output of SFD workshop: code sharing (Alexander)
  4. Microsoft requires Windows 8 logo systems to      not boot
     unsigned OS's (Chris Samuel)
  5. Re: Microsoft requires Windows 8 logo systems to not boot
     unsigned OS's (George Patterson)
  6. Re: Microsoft requires Windows 8 logo systems to not boot
     unsigned OS's (Dennis K)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:49:36 +1000
From: Ben Sturmfels <ben@stumbles.id.au>
To: Alex Fraser <alex@phatcore.com>
Cc: Melbourne Free Software Interest Group
       <free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au>
Subject: Re: [free-software-melb] Output of SFD workshop: code sharing
Message-ID: <4E7942B0.7060709@stumbles.id.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi Alex,

I've typed up the notes from the code sharing workshop at Software
Freedom Day:

http://wiki.freesoftware.asn.au/contributingAtWork

(I don't have Minh or Glenn's contact details though.)

Cheers,
Ben

On 09/17/2011 06:48 PM, Alex Fraser wrote:
> Hi Lev et al,
>
> Thanks for a great Software Freedom Day!
>
> The discussion in the Code Sharing workshop revolved around how to
> share code in a corporate setting. Occasionally the discussion drifted
> to encouraging the general adoption of FOSS, but we always came back
> to the topic of development. We identified a need for a set of
> arguments in favour of code contributions that could be presented to
> an employer or client, and then discussed what those arguments should
> be. We also identified a need for a generic FOSS contribution clause
> that can be included in client agreements.
>
> == Action Items ==
>   1. Rodney B: Search for an existing guide (page listing similar
> arguments), by the 1st of October.
>   2. Ben S, Glenn M: Use our notes to contribute to the guide found in
> 1. or start a new page at wiki.freesoftware.asn.au, by the 1st of
> November.
>   3. Alex F, Minh N: Look in to crowd funding options (e.g.
> Kickstarter) to pay for legal work (which may be carried out by
> Brendan Scott), by the 1st of November.
>
> That's as far as we got, but presumably more actions will stem from those.
>
> Thanks again,
> Alex




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 14:00:51 +1000
From: Patrick Sunter <patdevelop@gmail.com>
To: Melbourne Free Software Interest Group
       <free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au>
Subject: Re: [free-software-melb] Output of SFD workshop: code sharing
Message-ID:
       <CALOKYXVuRFiVkyGGuuCrk4O3zOO6bwXxFyRq4pgiJUmfoQMqww@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Ben Sturmfels <ben@stumbles.id.au> wrote:
> Hi Alex,
>
> I've typed up the notes from the code sharing workshop at Software Freedom
> Day:
>
> http://wiki.freesoftware.asn.au/contributingAtWork
>
> (I don't have Minh or Glenn's contact details though.)
>

On this subject I recently came across the free culture book Producing
Open Source software, by Karl Fogel (one of the lead devs of the
Subversion RCS): http://producingoss.com/

I recommend it in general for FOSS development, he also has some
things to say about contributions from commercial organisations, such
as http://producingoss.com/en/money-vs-love.html .

Perhaps a 'references' section on that Wiki page would be good for this?

-- Pat.

> Cheers,
> Ben
>
> On 09/17/2011 06:48 PM, Alex Fraser wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lev et al,
>>
>> Thanks for a great Software Freedom Day!
>>
>> The discussion in the Code Sharing workshop revolved around how to
>> share code in a corporate setting. Occasionally the discussion drifted
>> to encouraging the general adoption of FOSS, but we always came back
>> to the topic of development. We identified a need for a set of
>> arguments in favour of code contributions that could be presented to
>> an employer or client, and then discussed what those arguments should
>> be. We also identified a need for a generic FOSS contribution clause
>> that can be included in client agreements.
>>
>> == Action Items ==
>> ?1. Rodney B: Search for an existing guide (page listing similar
>> arguments), by the 1st of October.
>> ?2. Ben S, Glenn M: Use our notes to contribute to the guide found in
>> 1. or start a new page at wiki.freesoftware.asn.au, by the 1st of
>> November.
>> ?3. Alex F, Minh N: Look in to crowd funding options (e.g.
>> Kickstarter) to pay for legal work (which may be carried out by
>> Brendan Scott), by the 1st of November.
>>
>> That's as far as we got, but presumably more actions will stem from those.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Alex
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Free-software-melb mailing list
> Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au
> http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 14:41:54 +1000
From: Alexander <alex@clockworkpc.com.au>
To: Melbourne Free Software Interest Group
       <free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au>
Subject: Re: [free-software-melb] Output of SFD workshop: code sharing
Message-ID:
       <CAL1-YVPvitYsoRhfjk3wVGVp4+WHtS7xe74QdyzFm9xvMkctQg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Ben,

Thanks.
On Sep 21, 2011 11:50 AM, "Ben Sturmfels" <ben@stumbles.id.au> wrote:
> Hi Alex,
>
> I've typed up the notes from the code sharing workshop at Software
> Freedom Day:
>
> http://wiki.freesoftware.asn.au/contributingAtWork
>
> (I don't have Minh or Glenn's contact details though.)
>
> Cheers,
> Ben
>
> On 09/17/2011 06:48 PM, Alex Fraser wrote:
>> Hi Lev et al,
>>
>> Thanks for a great Software Freedom Day!
>>
>> The discussion in the Code Sharing workshop revolved around how to
>> share code in a corporate setting. Occasionally the discussion drifted
>> to encouraging the general adoption of FOSS, but we always came back
>> to the topic of development. We identified a need for a set of
>> arguments in favour of code contributions that could be presented to
>> an employer or client, and then discussed what those arguments should
>> be. We also identified a need for a generic FOSS contribution clause
>> that can be included in client agreements.
>>
>> == Action Items ==
>> 1. Rodney B: Search for an existing guide (page listing similar
>> arguments), by the 1st of October.
>> 2. Ben S, Glenn M: Use our notes to contribute to the guide found in
>> 1. or start a new page at wiki.freesoftware.asn.au, by the 1st of
>> November.
>> 3. Alex F, Minh N: Look in to crowd funding options (e.g.
>> Kickstarter) to pay for legal work (which may be carried out by
>> Brendan Scott), by the 1st of November.
>>
>> That's as far as we got, but presumably more actions will stem from
those.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Alex
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Free-software-melb mailing list
> Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au
> http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 14:55:15 +1000
From: Chris Samuel <chris@csamuel.org>
To: Melbourne Free Software Interest Group
       <free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au>
Subject: [free-software-melb] Microsoft requires Windows 8 logo
       systems to      not boot unsigned OS's
Message-ID: <4E796E33.5080107@csamuel.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

This looks like something to keep an eye on..  Matthew
Garrett (the guy who makes peoples laptops work with Linux
and has to deal with EFI & Linux - makes you wonder what
awful thing he did in a past life) writes about a worrying
requirement for Windows 8 logo certification for hardware
vendors..

http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5552.html

# Microsoft requires that machines conforming to the
# Windows 8 logo program and running a client version
# of Windows 8 ship with secure boot enabled. The two
# alternatives here are for Windows to be signed with
# a Microsoft key and for the public part of that key
# to be included with all systems, or alternatively for
# each OEM to include their own key and sign the
# pre-installed versions of Windows. The second approach
# would make it impossible to run boxed copies of Windows
# on Windows logo hardware, and also impossible to install
# new versions of Windows unless your OEM provided a new
# signed copy. The former seems more likely.
#
# A system that ships with only OEM and Microsoft keys will
# not boot a generic copy of Linux.



--
 Chris Samuel  :  http://www.csamuel.org/  :  Melbourne, VIC



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:41:01 +1000
From: George Patterson <george.patterson@gmail.com>
To: Melbourne Free Software Interest Group
       <free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au>
Subject: Re: [free-software-melb] Microsoft requires Windows 8 logo
       systems to not boot unsigned OS's
Message-ID:
       <CALMTgW9oyroyoit-G9Vzvbr1cXC_XQvYtAoBrSug7s2nnGkM9w@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 21 September 2011 14:55, Chris Samuel <chris@csamuel.org> wrote:
> This looks like something to keep an eye on.. ?Matthew
> Garrett (the guy who makes peoples laptops work with Linux
> and has to deal with EFI & Linux - makes you wonder what
> awful thing he did in a past life) writes about a worrying
> requirement for Windows 8 logo certification for hardware
> vendors..
>
> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5552.html
>
> # Microsoft requires that machines conforming to the
> # Windows 8 logo program and running a client version
> # of Windows 8 ship with secure boot enabled. The two
> # alternatives here are for Windows to be signed with
> # a Microsoft key and for the public part of that key
> # to be included with all systems, or alternatively for
> # each OEM to include their own key and sign the
> # pre-installed versions of Windows. The second approach
> # would make it impossible to run boxed copies of Windows
> # on Windows logo hardware, and also impossible to install
> # new versions of Windows unless your OEM provided a new
> # signed copy. The former seems more likely.
> #
> # A system that ships with only OEM and Microsoft keys will
> # not boot a generic copy of Linux.
>

Ahhh Trusted (read Treacherous) Computing. I thought that idea was
buried years ago. I guess the question will be, will the purchaser of
the hardware be able to install a non-Microsoft OS?  If not, I'm not
sure who the hardware owner is under this model. Will we be reduced to
mod-chipping "our" PCs in another five years.

On another note, what have the white boxes or build it yourself?

Regards


George



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:00:56 +1000
From: Dennis K <dennisk@netspace.net.au>
To: free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au
Subject: Re: [free-software-melb] Microsoft requires Windows 8 logo
       systems to not boot unsigned OS's
Message-ID: <4E79A7C8.9020305@netspace.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 09/21/2011 05:41 PM, George Patterson wrote:
> On 21 September 2011 14:55, Chris Samuel <chris@csamuel.org> wrote:
>> This looks like something to keep an eye on..  Matthew
>> Garrett (the guy who makes peoples laptops work with Linux
>> and has to deal with EFI & Linux - makes you wonder what
>> awful thing he did in a past life) writes about a worrying
>> requirement for Windows 8 logo certification for hardware
>> vendors..
>>
>> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5552.html
>>
>> # Microsoft requires that machines conforming to the
>> # Windows 8 logo program and running a client version
>> # of Windows 8 ship with secure boot enabled. The two
>> # alternatives here are for Windows to be signed with
>> # a Microsoft key and for the public part of that key
>> # to be included with all systems, or alternatively for
>> # each OEM to include their own key and sign the
>> # pre-installed versions of Windows. The second approach
>> # would make it impossible to run boxed copies of Windows
>> # on Windows logo hardware, and also impossible to install
>> # new versions of Windows unless your OEM provided a new
>> # signed copy. The former seems more likely.
>> #
>> # A system that ships with only OEM and Microsoft keys will
>> # not boot a generic copy of Linux.
>>
>
> Ahhh Trusted (read Treacherous) Computing. I thought that idea was
> buried years ago. I guess the question will be, will the purchaser of
> the hardware be able to install a non-Microsoft OS?  If not, I'm not
> sure who the hardware owner is under this model. Will we be reduced to
> mod-chipping "our" PCs in another five years.
>
> On another note, what have the white boxes or build it yourself?
>
> Regards
>
>
> George
>
> _______________________________________________
> Free-software-melb mailing list
> Free-software-melb@lists.softwarefreedom.com.au
> http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb
>

Free software is a political concern.

This is why I emphasise the need to create a demand for independence and
freedom in computing, which is separate from creating a demand for
specific software.

Focusing on usability, whether "mum" can install Ubuntu etc, is exactly
the attitude which is keeping adoption of Linux still in the single
digit figures (and low single digit figures at that!) on the desktop.

Controversial statement, I know.  But it needs to be said.









------------------------------

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